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Post by Lantern Lad on Aug 24, 2005 22:05:57 GMT -5
well....i tried my best to have Croc give that hint without it being real revealing...which is why i said simply "wilson" which could be a first or last name...and it is very common, so...yeah. Or it could have been a volleyball! ;D |
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Post by superboy650 on Aug 25, 2005 2:49:22 GMT -5
To be honest... I didn't like this issue that much. I liked the first two issues a lot. You just expected the Graysons to fall like the usual story goes. And it was an interesting idea to use Croc and see Batman deduce it through the evidence at the scene. Croc was a vshock but fit perfectly in the sense he'd likely be a cricus freak. But this issue seemed to choppy. You have Batman getting beaten severely (granted it's early in his career and he's not the master martial artist yet) and suddenly is able to beat Croc underwater? And Wilson's role seems to play against Batman's plans for Dick, but it still feels to me like he was thrown in there. In my opinion the thing that's going wrong is that you're throwing all these elements in like Croc, Slade, and Dent and it's still the intro storyline with teasers of Joker, Crane, Harley, Gordon and Bullock. And still tell a story of Batman and the beginning threads of Dick becoming Robin. Sure, all of us are really familiar with the base material, but intro stories despite whether they're for die-hard fans or newbs should be a lot more focused. I think that's what was missing here, but you did a fairly good job of focusing in the last few issues of Superman and the Toyman story.
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Post by HouseOfMystery on Aug 25, 2005 5:29:56 GMT -5
if you're the editor... run spell check. just a tip. "eliminate"...
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Post by Dark Knight of Steel on Aug 25, 2005 12:36:32 GMT -5
i did spellcheck and specifically i remember spellchecking that exact word....lol i musta screwed something up or maybe my spellchecker is screwed up...sorry about that....eh... oh...and superboy, nice to see you back and on the board and i LOVE your post here....wanna know why? negative critism helps more than positive. I understand, I do have a lot going on...but these first issues aren't so much an origin for batman (that'll actually be in the maxi i have planned Batman: Building a Legend). Regarding the underwater fight....I didn't want to show the win cause I wanted (for a sec) to have people believe Croc won...but I had planned that next issue it will tell how Croc lost. and trust me on this...Slade wasn't just thrown in. I had no clues prior to this issue but Slade has been a part of the story for awhile. At first, though, his role woulda been a little bit different, but Slade (as well as Croc and their boss) are part of a bigger story. And I also agree, that maybe I have focused a little bit too much on maybe a lil too many villain and ally subplots. Although, really, Dent and Gordon...i couldn't really imagine doing a year one type thing without focusing on those two. anyways...thjinks for the critique....  |
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Post by superboy650 on Aug 26, 2005 6:11:23 GMT -5
Hey... believe me... there is no such thing as positive criticism... it's either constructive criticism and irrelevant praise. I'm definitely not saying fans' praise is irrelevant, but the only way to get better is to get criticized.
I understand that this isn't introducing Batman in the sense that this is an origin story, but it's introducing him in the sense that these are the first stories of him that you are telling. Do you know why All-Star Batman and Robin gets bad reviews from fans in the first issue? IMO, it's because you see Bruce Wayne in a few pages and Batman in one.
While in comic format, we'd see Croc's body emerge from the body first... the suspense doesn't build quite the same when one sentence says Croc appears out of the water and the next sentence says that Batman is carrying the body out. You've introduced so much already that the better idea would have been to cut to another scene after saying Croc rises. Take advantage of what you write. You can introduce all this material that I said seemed cluttered and use it to create suspense.
Same with Slade. The reason he felt thrown in is because just about all of us know his future role. We know he'll have his eye on Dick for his abilities, but you throw in this concept of a villain watching Dick as a counter to Batman and reveal too quickly who it is. Leave us guessing. Leave hints first... then the revea a few issues later. Aside from the marketing ability of these 6 issue arcs abundant in comics now... it also makes for a great story. You get a story that has to be broken up into 6 parts and have to keep everyone guessing. Leave a hint every issue that leads to a final reveak type issue.
And I'll say this pretty bluntly about the "teases" you've thrown about... a tease is good to start buzz, but a tease becomes a spoiler when you let too much go. Croc talking to someone higher up than Slade? PM me if you wanna know what I think and want to see if I see it coming already.
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Post by HouseOfMystery on Aug 26, 2005 7:32:38 GMT -5
i like this guy...
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Post by HouseOfMystery on Aug 26, 2005 7:51:40 GMT -5
Setting up teases... Stuff like that...
That's the stuff that makes a story for me...
I don't like instant reveals...
I likes slow revealing details...
(basically 'cos that's how I write)
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Post by Lantern Lad on Aug 26, 2005 12:42:40 GMT -5
Hey... believe me... there is no such thing as positive criticism... it's either constructive criticism and irrelevant praise. I'm definitely not saying fans' praise is irrelevant, but the only way to get better is to get criticized. I understand that this isn't introducing Batman in the sense that this is an origin story, but it's introducing him in the sense that these are the first stories of him that you are telling. Do you know why All-Star Batman and Robin gets bad reviews from fans in the first issue? IMO, it's because you see Bruce Wayne in a few pages and Batman in one. I like your criticisms (personally, it helped me rescue my story from mediocrity before it was too late), although I do not agree with your usage of the term irrelevant praise. If someone actually enjoyed it, then it is not irrelevant... Like myself, I actually enjoyed the story & did not feel the need to pick it apart. I'm sure if I felt the need to pick it apart, I could come up with something that was wrong... (How did Bullock just happen to be at the lake?), but that can take away from the fun of the story. Anyway, feel free to criticize all you want (like I said, it helped & horrified me when I saw it on my thread), but don't call praise irrelevant, since you don't speak for everyone. All Star... IMO, it's getting bad reviews because it was just lacking. The dialoge was unnecessarily repetitive. Although I did enjoy the rendering of Vicky Vale. |
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Post by Dark Knight of Steel on Aug 26, 2005 20:57:53 GMT -5
well...it wasn't a teaser, because the issue actually says "tell Wilson to pick him up or something". Croc definitely wasn't talking to Wilson. but maybe it was a bit of a spoiler saying someone higher up....so yeah, i do have a habit of giving too much away....oops...sorry, just erase your memories of my comment.... ;D lol
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Post by HouseOfMystery on Aug 27, 2005 5:06:52 GMT -5
oh... wow.  |
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Post by superboy650 on Aug 27, 2005 18:42:06 GMT -5
Hey... Sorry about the "irrelevant praise" remark. Not what I meant at all. A person's enjoyment is not what i was calling irrelevant. I simply meant that in learning where your mistakes are, praise doesn't help. You need solid (sometimes uncensored) criticism to become better at anything.
And I'm glad that I helped you, Lantern Lad, and believe me, I didn't mean to "horrify" you.
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Post by Lantern Lad on Aug 29, 2005 12:04:45 GMT -5
And I'm glad that I helped you, Lantern Lad, and believe me, I didn't mean to "horrify" you. OH, no need to apologize about that at all... I needed horrifying... Still can't believe I did it. |
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Post by HouseOfMystery on Aug 29, 2005 13:38:34 GMT -5
Hey... Sorry about the "irrelevant praise" remark. Not what I meant at all. A person's enjoyment is not what i was calling irrelevant. I simply meant that in learning where your mistakes are, praise doesn't help. You need solid (sometimes uncensored) criticism to become better at anything. And I'm glad that I helped you, Lantern Lad, and believe me, I didn't mean to "horrify" you. people... that is dripping with sarcasm...  |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Aug 29, 2005 16:32:14 GMT -5
That's odd... I don't sense sarcasm at play here. I usually bask in sarcasm. I can usually detect it a mile away. Need to check my sarcasm meter... Nope, still getting nothing.
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Post by superboy650 on Aug 30, 2005 1:55:19 GMT -5
I was sarcastic? Wow... I always said that I'm SO sarcastic that I don't even know when I'm being sarcastic, but damn... didn't think I was serious. But in all seriousness... I don't write sarcasm... except when I'm chatting on AIM.
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